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Sandbagging the draft


Sandbagging the draft

Just occurred to me why my team seems to be lower in the supplemental draft than teams I know are better than me... they sandbagged the draft by adding some very low ranked players at the end. Look below at my team (7th in Supplemental draft) and Team B (3rd in Supplemental draft). Even though it's pretty obvious he added some suck players (8, 9, 15, 18) that he had no intention of using, which lowered his average rank to almost two points below mine, even though his pitching is clearly better. This allowed him to add a 93 SP that I clearly needed more than he did. Anybody else feel this is sandbagging and have you encountered it before? I'm only guessing average rank is how team strength is calculated -- maybe I'm wrong on that.

MY TEAM
C(DH) 80
C(1B) 29
1B(DH) 78
1B(DH) 89
1B(DH) 70
2B(IF) 60
2B(IF) 61
3B(1B) 91
SS(IF) 50
OF(OF) 90
OF(DH) 86
OF(OF) 75
OF(DH) 90
SP 91
SP 80
SP 70
SP 59
SP 51
RP 92
RP 85
RP 61
RP 51
RP 50
AVG 71.26

TEAM B
C(DH) 9
C(1B) 77
1B(DH) 84
2B(DH) 98
3B(1B) 79
SS(IF) 83
DH(1B) 8
DH(OF) 73
OF(OF) 15
OF(DH) 96
OF(1B) 18
OF(DH) 92
OF(DH) 92
SP 99
SP 87
SP 81
SP 75
SP 63
RP 99
RP 83
RP 70
RP 60
RP 55
AVG 69.39

Re: Sandbagging the draft

Clearly the owner of Team B is smarter than you are.

Re: Sandbagging the draft

If they're not going to start for me or be a defensive replacement, I usually go with the worst guy just in case it matters for team strength.

Re: Sandbagging the draft

Same. At some point during the quick drafts I get offered some players I have no use for, and will always take the worst of the bunch knowing I'm dropping them either way. I'd be surprised if it made that much of a difference, but smart to do it just in case. So he has 4 low ranked players of the 23 he drafted, and one of those is great defensive player and probably being kept. So no, I wouldnt call it sandbagging at all, just something that makes sense to do if you arent offered any players you would keep.

Re: Re: Sandbagging the draft

I think the formula does drop the last six players so teams can't sandbag as easy, but even there I think he dropped under you because he went so low in rank with so many of his last picks. It could probably use some tweaking, this is good info to have.

Re: Sandbagging the draft

Be careful though low rated players may be great DWAR players. At the end I take the best defenders regardless of their offense.

Re: Re: Sandbagging the draft

Yes, Team B clearly is smarter than I am... but I'm learning. Never thought about it before because it never occurred to me to not draft good players. Yeah, sandbagging may have been a little harsh, but I couldn't come up with a better term. Not sure anything needs to be tweaked or fixed... it's part of the game and something I am now aware of. A little embarrassed I didn't see it sooner.

Re: Sandbagging the draft

So often the Rk is deceptive though. I just did an 80’s quick draft, was offered 19Rk Ozzie, 57 Rk McGwire. Both of those guys will have significantly bigger impacts than my 95Rk Puckett will.

Of all the #’s to look at, Rk is low on the priority list.

Re: Sandbagging the draft

When I started, I was always proud of how good a team I drafted. To the point that I was excited when I was 11th or 12th team in the Supplemental Draft. Then I finally realized that you often win or lose the league in the Supplemental Draft. Since then I have always drafted with the intention of landing a high spot in the draft. Getting that extra top-ranked SP makes all the difference.

Of course it does not always work out the way you planned but more often than not, you will get in the playoffs with this strategy.

Re: Re: Sandbagging the draft

I’ve said this before but this is why I never play this draft format. Seems ripe for inequality, especially between veteran and new owners. I know daily draft with no keepers takes a lot longer to get going (draft takes a week), but I would highly recommend newcomers stick to that format. Far fairer. None of these issues at all.

Re: Sandbagging the draft

It's not really a SIM setting failure Gus- It's guys ALWAYS looking for a way to game the system - The same guys who find a way to take advantage of a small glitch in the system instead of just grinding it out-

Your right about Daily Draft Leagues Though- it's a much more fair system- although I would rather that the initial Draft Order be shown before the 1st Round starts

Check out this Daily Draft No keepers League - it ended up with 4 BOTS and 2 are currently in the playoff race half way through the Season with some GOOD Owners in the League

https://www.pennantchase.com/lgStan..

Re: Re: Sandbagging the draft

I join the keepers sometimes. (4 keepers) But never stay for the 2nd season. I know there are some who do and if you are drafting late and the good guys are gone you are at a disadvantage going in.

Re: Sandbagging the draft

I still play a lot of autos and I've been in some keeper leagues as many as 10+ seasons. I've been playing more Custom leagues recently, but still enjoy the autos.

- The Sheik

Re: Sandbagging the draft

I have experienced many Auto Drafts where I have already drafted a player for a certain position and then later in the draft, the best player on the board plays that same position. So, I will purposely draft the lowest rated player because I plan on cutting the player as soon as I am able.

Also, i will sometimes draft a really low rated player because they have speed or play good defense, which will be really useful for my bench.

All owners have the ability to use this strategy as well.

Re: Re: Sandbagging the draft

Mark Belanger is ranked a 7 in my 70s drafts. Probably the lowest-ranked player I ALWAYS try to draft earlier than most managers. Belanger makes between 90-125 defensive plays every season. Belanger and Grich hold down the middle of the infield for me whenever I can get both of these light-hitting defensive stars.

Re: Re: Sandbagging the draft

@REVEJB -- I'm not looking at Rk to draft... but I'm assuming that is what is looked at when determining team strength to set order of supplemental draft. What else could the sim use?

Re: Sandbagging the draft

@GPSMAN: Understood, that makes perfect sense... I have done the same, as well as draft lower ranked players for a certain skill set that is useful off the bench, as someone mentioned earlier... completely understand. That's not what's happening here. Like I said, I'm not complaining, though... just something I observed and wondered about the prevalence of the strategy. Hey, it's a game and if it's allowed by the rules and helps someone win, more power to 'em.

Re: Sandbagging the draft

I agree, my point is that higher Rk doesn’t always mean bigger impact. For me, in an 80’s league for example, highest Rk SS is Hubie Brooks, but Ozzie and Ripken are best SS draft choices due to dWar, in spite of lower Rk. Sometimes what looks like “sandbagging” is just better team building. Sometimes it is just “sandbagging.”

I generally agree with GusPC, I like daily drafts better, but I do both. I do love that gbacci has given us daily and quick draft leagues for different experiences and personalities.

Re: Re: Sandbagging the draft

https://www.pennantchase.com/lgRost..
How's this for a sandbag...!?!?!?

Re: Sandbagging the draft

That's one of the bot filler teams. That's what they do.

Re: Sandbagging the draft

Are the bot filler teams officially created to fill the empty spots?

The worst is when I lose theee games in a row to a team seems to be randomly thrown together with players of various rank and offensive and defensive ability. No rhyme or reason, but they beat me.

Makes me wonder too which stats have the greatest impact.

Re: Re: Sandbagging the draft

Bot teams were added to PC to help auto leagues fill up so they could start. A lot of times people do not want to be the 11th or 12th team drafting and leagues would sit forever.

They are randomly created but the goal is for them to be competitive, which means they need to be good enough to win games and even sweep a season. A month or so ago Guy fixed a problem where the Bot teams were not inserting the players gained in the Supplemental Draft into their lineups. Since they always get 3 good players in the draft the bot teams have been getting better. I occasionally am seeing Bot teams that have decent lineups now. Usually the SP is still too weak for them to win a lot though.

Re: Sandbagging the draft

Thank you for you explanation MARKPHIP, I really appreciate it.

I notice now that some teams have owners named filler, which is clearly a bot.

Do you know if Dynasty is a bot? I’ll try clicking on it now to see if the profiles says.

(Update) ok, I can see now from the user profile that it is a bot if it is in hundreds of leagues, out of only 25.

Re: Re: Sandbagging the draft

Dynasty is filler's daddy bot lol

When I first joined this site in 2014, I tried for a week to trade with Dynasty!